Switch from KTM 890R to T700...

[Stou]

Hi I have a KTM 890Adventure R 2021 and looking to move to a 2024 T700. Anyone who did similar move? If so, your comments please?

Edited May 21 by Stou

[Montesa_VR]

Funny. I took two different experienced rider classes the last two Saturdays.  One of the instructors in the first class had a KTM 1190. One in the second class had an 890. Both of them asked me how I liked my Tenere and said that’s what they should have bought. 

[Tenerider]

Welcome aboard @Stou!

What is it you don't like about your 890? I haven't ridden one yet, but maybe we can check if the T7 would be an improvement for you or not.

 

[jdub53]

My cousin owns a 2021 890 Adv R, and we've ridden together frequently and have swapped bikes several times while on pavement. My impressions between the two bikes, which are each within 500 miles of 19,000 total miles:

 

With his addition of a small spoiler to the top of the 890's windscreen, that bike has more wind protection and less wind noise than the T7 while cruising on the road, so is a bit more comfy on the highway. The 890 also has more power, and I love its quickshifter and cruise control (neither are on my '21 T7). The 890's suspension in stock form is also superior to the T7's. The 890 is definitely taller, but the OEM lower seat brings it close to the T7's stock seat height.

 

The 890 feels bigger and heavier to me than my T7, which is a negative to me especially off-road but it does nicely carry its weight lower. There have also been several issues with the 890, while the T7 continues to impress me with its build, quality and reliability. Fuel mileage has been similar between the two, with mid-to-high 50s mpg during most riding and mid-40s mpg during +70 mph highway riding. Yamaha specifies regular fuel (86 or higher octane using the (R=M)/2 method) for the T7, which is all I've ever used, while the KTM requires premium fuel. 

 

We each love our respective bikes, and my T7 is probably my favorite of all that I've owned (which is many). From the first time I sat on it, the T7 felt like a 7/8 scale model of the KTM 950 Adv that I owned years ago, and that's a good thing in every respect. 

 

Good luck with your decision!

 

 

[Windblown]

KTM = Hot date when you're in the mood for wild tire spinning romp.    

Yamaha = Hard working girl that you marry. Always there for you. 

[Stou]

9 hours ago, Montesa_VR said:

Funny. I took two different experienced rider classes the last two Saturdays.  One of the instructors in the first class had a KTM 1190. One in the second class had an 890. Both of them asked me how I liked my Tenere and said that’s what they should have bought. 

That's funny because I'm also an ADV instructor! 

[Stou]

10 hours ago, Tenerider said:

Welcome aboard @Stou!

What is it you don't like about your 890? I haven't ridden one yet, but maybe we can check if the T7 would be an improvement for you or not.

 

Thanks Tenerider! Here's what I think and the reason behind my question. Like I wrote, I'm a ADV instructor with a background of motocross and enduro racing. I owned before my 890R a R1200GS , a KTM 990R, a R800GS, an Africa Twin, and a 790S. And a lot of motocross, enduro and street bike before that.

 

I love the 890R. It's a high performance and high tech bike that can do anything and it's a very fun bike. The only problem is the reliability. There are several known issues and some are really expensive to fix. I guess that come with the high performance and high tech that bike have. I do all the mechanic and maintenance work myself. But right now I just wonder if I keep the bike and do rigorou$ maintenance regularly to avoid breakdowns on the road and more damage to the engine, or simply sell it and buy a T700 which it look like a very reliable bike but with less performance and thechnology.  Will I miss the excitement and performance of the 890? There's a Yamaha demo ride next Saturday And I'm registered for the T700.

Edited May 22 by Stou

[Tenerider]

1 hour ago, Stou said:

Thanks Tenerider! Here's what I think and the reason behind my question. Like I wrote, I'm a ADV instructor with a background of motocross and enduro racing. I owned before my 890R a R1200GS , a KTM 990R, a R800GS, an Africa Twin, and a 790S. And a lot of motocross, enduro and street bike before that.

 

I love the 890R. It's a high performance and high tech bike that can do anything and it's a very fun bike. The only problem is the reliability. There are several known issues and some are really expensive to fix. I guess that come with the high performance and high tech that bike have. I do all the mechanic and maintenance work myself. But right now I just wonder if I keep the bike and do rigorou$ maintenance regularly to avoid breakdowns on the road and more damage to the engine, or simply sell it and buy a T700 which it look like a very reliable bike but with less performance and thechnology.  Will I miss the excitement and performance of the 890? There's a Yamaha demo ride next Saturday And I'm registered for the T700.

Thanks! Sounds like the T7 might make you happy, if you can live with slightly less power (which can be cured to some extend with a bigger airbox inlet and appropriate remapping - I have done it and the gain in midrange power and torque is significant).

Especially if you're doing maintenance by yourself you'll appreciate the lack of electronics and KISS approach of the T7.

[Stou]

That's interesting Tenerider, thanks!

[Stou]

Many people who tried or ride the T700 said it's top heavy. Is it noticable when riding especialy in slow and tigh single trails or only when you have to pick it up when it's on the ground?

[Tenerider]

39 minutes ago, Stou said:

Many people who tried or ride the T700 said it's top heavy. Is it noticable when riding especialy in slow and tigh single trails or only when you have to pick it up when it's on the ground?

Due to its top-heavyness it's stable even at low speeds...until it drops. I'd say at trials speeds in tight turns you'll definitely notice the high COG. When it decides to fall, let it go, it's impossible to catch it. The biggest problem when picking it up is not only the weight distribution - it lies completely flat since it is so narrow. Picking up a GS is easy compared to a T7.

 

 

[random1781]

23 minutes ago, Stou said:

Many people who tried or ride the T700 said it's top heavy. Is it noticable when riding especialy in slow and tigh single trails or only when you have to pick it up when it's on the ground?

Only on drops. I think an apt analogy is that the 790/890 feels similar to the 1200GS in the way the Tenere feels to KTM's 1X90 bikes on slower/tighter terrain. Yes they're technically more top heavy, but aside from picking it up, I never felt this impacted handling negatively. But frankly I feel like the most vocal complainers of top heaviness in bikes like these are either dirt bike people who expect a dirt bike or people who are blaming something else rather than being introspective!

 

I think the most significant difference for me is the breadth of usable power the Tenere has in comparison. Yes the 890 has more hooligan power, but the Tenere gives you that power in a very broad and smooth band right where you want it off road. It also has a touch of the KLR tractory feel to it, but in a good way.

[Windblown]

Good points about the "top heavy" claims/issues.  I own a modded up 790 ADV-R and a modded up T700. Yes, once you loose the T700 it feels harder to save with a dab, but here's the rub (for me anyway) - I  have a mild slow first gear  twisty single track practice loop with elevation changes behind my house and I usually run it standing up. I find the T700 feels more natural in the turns and the smoothness of the low rpm pull is very helpful.  Most importantly though, I am much less likely to have to take a dab on the T700. It's narrower footprint may contribute to that but until you "loose" balance it feels "better" balanced, if that makes sense? 

 

Anyway, don't get me wrong, the 790/890 is an awesome platform and I have no intention of selling mine anytime soon.  It's tough as nails, takes tons of abuse. Absolutely eats up whatever I point it at and the difference in power is huge between them.  The T700 is a wonderful fun sweet torquey motor. From 1st thru 3rd gear it keeps me smiling at all times and pulls well from low rpms. The KTM on the other hand is a screamer and can be a bit grumpy at low RPMs, but it will illicit a total shyt eating grin when ridden in anger with the RPMS in it's happy place.  This becomes super apparent in the higher gears where once in 4th gear you can go WOT on the T700 and it won't make an impact on your heart rate. Do the same on the 790/890 platform and your heart rate is going to jump a bit unless you have no pulse.  LOL. 

 

 

 

[Stou]

2 hours ago, Tenerider said:

Due to its top-heavyness it's stable even at low speeds...until it drops. I'd say at trials speeds in tight turns you'll definitely notice the high COG. When it decides to fall, let it go, it's impossible to catch it. The biggest problem when picking it up is not only the weight distribution - it lies completely flat since it is so narrow. Picking up a GS is easy compared to a T7.

 

 

That's an interesting comment. I forgot to tell that I'm also a trial rider. I have a modern (Ossa TR280 2012) and a vintage trial bike (Honda TLR 200 1986). You can avoid that kind of problem with body transfer on the bike. Riding ADV bike is sometime similar to trial riding. I had a KTM 990R and it's probably similar to pick it up... not always easy depending on the situation!

[Tenerider]

15 minutes ago, Stou said:

That's an interesting comment. I forgot to tell that I'm also a trial rider. I have a modern (Ossa TR280 2012) and a vintage trial bike (Honda TLR 200 1986). You can avoid that kind of problem with body transfer on the bike. Riding ADV bike is sometime similar to trial riding. I had a KTM 990R and it's probably similar to pick it up... not always easy depending on the situation!

I'm doing trials since a few weeks only (restored a 2017 Beta Evo 300 2t), and I also think you can apply those counter-balancing techniques to ADV bikes.

 

What @Windblown says actually totally makes sense (and almost nobody understands it):

A high COG bike stabilizes better (and at lower speeds) than one with a low COG. Some time ago I was a bit fed up with people getting this wrong and wrote this here:

 

Long story short: A high COG is more resistant to being thrown out of balance. Its self-stabilization is better.

A low COG, on the other hand, gets out of balance quicker, but it's easier to counter-act it and get it back in balance (best example is a trials bike: super-low COG).

[S.Ga.Rider]

Look up ktm cam shaft failure on facebook. They've had so many issues with the 790/890 that they have their own page just for failed camshafts.  That being said, I've had a few ktms and they have been fantastic bikes. I currently have a 501 and love it but my t7 is my go anywhere bike. I can hit the trails or ride across the country and not carry spare parts. I have a 5k mile trip next month. New tire, change the oil and ride.

[Stou]

1 hour ago, S.Ga.Rider said:

Look up ktm cam shaft failure on facebook. They've had so many issues with the 790/890 that they have their own page just for failed camshafts.  That being said, I've had a few ktms and they have been fantastic bikes. I currently have a 501 and love it but my t7 is my go anywhere bike. I can hit the trails or ride across the country and not carry spare parts. I have a 5k mile trip next month. New tire, change the oil and ride.

I know, I'm on that FB page. That's one of the reason why I think of switching. There's a dealer around here who sell Yamaha, Suzuki and KTM and since my bike is clean and not to high km on it, he make me a reasonable offer. They have 4 T700 in stock... Next Saturday I'll try the T700 at the demo ride and I'll see if I make the switch or not.

[Stou]

5 hours ago, Tenerider said:

I'm doing trials since a few weeks only (restored a 2017 Beta Evo 300 2t), and I also think you can apply those counter-balancing techniques to ADV bikes.

 

What @Windblown says actually totally makes sense (and almost nobody understands it):

A high COG bike stabilizes better (and at lower speeds) than one with a low COG. Some time ago I was a bit fed up with people getting this wrong and wrote this here:

 

Long story short: A high COG is more resistant to being thrown out of balance. Its self-stabilization is better.

A low COG, on the other hand, gets out of balance quicker, but it's easier to counter-act it and get it back in balance (best example is a trials bike: super-low COG).

Yes at low speed you have to use your body to conter balance the weight of the bike going in the oposite direction. It's the same in trial.

 

Here's a small example from my Youtube chanel: Tight turn technic

[sunndog]

22 hours ago, Stou said:

That's an interesting comment. I forgot to tell that I'm also a trial rider. I have a modern (Ossa TR280 2012) and a vintage trial bike (Honda TLR 200 1986). You can avoid that kind of problem with body transfer on the bike. Riding ADV bike is sometime similar to trial riding. I had a KTM 990R and it's probably similar to pick it up... not always easy depending on the situation!

 

I came from a 990 adv to the t7 and it feels a good bit lighter and more nimble to me even though they are basically the same weight.

 

Also looked very hard at an 890 but reliability reputation won out for me on a bike that's a workhorse

Plus those saggy t*ts tanks on the 890 did nothing for me after the beautiful lines of a 990. 

Man they are a good looking bike!

 

Looks is also why I didn't look too hard at the world raid but people have claimed it feels lighter than a normal t7

[Stou]

The 890R feel a lot lighter than the 990R. Probably because of the saggy t*ts!  My 2010 990R was top heavy, not the 890R.

[maddog123]

I haven't yet tried the 890R (my friend just got one) but my guess is if the T7 that you will be trying is stock you will be disappointing in the power output espicially right out of the hole. I was disappointed in it, until I put a exhaust on it, now it is a lot better but my thought is that 200cc difference will be more then noticeable.    

Edited May 23 by maddog123

[CoreCass]

On 5/22/2024 at 3:55 PM, Stou said:

Thanks Tenerider! Here's what I think and the reason behind my question. Like I wrote, I'm a ADV instructor with a background of motocross and enduro racing. I owned before my 890R a R1200GS , a KTM 990R, a R800GS, an Africa Twin, and a 790S. And a lot of motocross, enduro and street bike before that.

 

I love the 890R. It's a high performance and high tech bike that can do anything and it's a very fun bike. The only problem is the reliability. There are several known issues and some are really expensive to fix. I guess that come with the high performance and high tech that bike have. I do all the mechanic and maintenance work myself. But right now I just wonder if I keep the bike and do rigorou$ maintenance regularly to avoid breakdowns on the road and more damage to the engine, or simply sell it and buy a T700 which it look like a very reliable bike but with less performance and thechnology.  Will I miss the excitement and performance of the 890? There's a Yamaha demo ride next Saturday And I'm registered for the T700.

im quite curius what your findings are.

 

mean i have never ownd only driven a few km with a 790r. how ever i soon felt like i was driving a overpowerd puch maxi or somthing.   guy i switched with now has bought a t7 as well.

mine is no longer standard but its not far off. how ever as i hear a lot he is in love with his own bike now as well.

[CoreCass]

On 5/22/2024 at 8:29 PM, Windblown said:

Good points about the "top heavy" claims/issues.  I own a modded up 790 ADV-R and a modded up T700. Yes, once you loose the T700 it feels harder to save with a dab, but here's the rub (for me anyway) - I  have a mild slow first gear  twisty single track practice loop with elevation changes behind my house and I usually run it standing up. I find the T700 feels more natural in the turns and the smoothness of the low rpm pull is very helpful.  Most importantly though, I am much less likely to have to take a dab on the T700. It's narrower footprint may contribute to that but until you "loose" balance it feels "better" balanced, if that makes sense? 

 

Anyway, don't get me wrong, the 790/890 is an awesome platform and I have no intention of selling mine anytime soon.  It's tough as nails, takes tons of abuse. Absolutely eats up whatever I point it at and the difference in power is huge between them.  The T700 is a wonderful fun sweet torquey motor. From 1st thru 3rd gear it keeps me smiling at all times and pulls well from low rpms. The KTM on the other hand is a screamer and can be a bit grumpy at low RPMs, but it will illicit a total shyt eating grin when ridden in anger with the RPMS in it's happy place.  This becomes super apparent in the higher gears where once in 4th gear you can go WOT on the T700 and it won't make an impact on your heart rate. Do the same on the 790/890 platform and your heart rate is going to jump a bit unless you have no pulse.  LOL. 

 

 

 

well.. i modded mine a bit. cat 2 tune on it..  and ill bet you it pulls even in 6th. [not fuel friendly tough]  of cours its not a sports bike but a lot of people are supriced by it.

different snorkel [larger] different headers. no reusing fuel fumes.  and the flash does wonders.  next what i need to upgrade are the clutch springs as i feel that the clutch somtimes slips wen giving it a lot of throtle.

seems like most power is not deliverd.   it already has a more agressive clutch plate set.  how ever i thought the standart springs would be enoch.

enoch rambling..    far to much to just say the following:  if tickled right. she is just as or even more playfull as the ktm stock.

 

On 5/22/2024 at 3:55 PM, Stou said:

Thanks Tenerider! Here's what I think and the reason behind my question. Like I wrote, I'm a ADV instructor with a background of motocross and enduro racing. I owned before my 890R a R1200GS , a KTM 990R, a R800GS, an Africa Twin, and a 790S. And a lot of motocross, enduro and street bike before that.

 

I love the 890R. It's a high performance and high tech bike that can do anything and it's a very fun bike. The only problem is the reliability. There are several known issues and some are really expensive to fix. I guess that come with the high performance and high tech that bike have. I do all the mechanic and maintenance work myself. But right now I just wonder if I keep the bike and do rigorou$ maintenance regularly to avoid breakdowns on the road and more damage to the engine, or simply sell it and buy a T700 which it look like a very reliable bike but with less performance and thechnology.  Will I miss the excitement and performance of the 890? There's a Yamaha demo ride next Saturday And I'm registered for the T700.

dont know what version you want to go for. but if you go stock.. i would look at a good rear spring. front is pritty ok. tough i changed both.

[sunndog]

6 hours ago, Stou said:

The 890R feel a lot lighter than the 990R. Probably because of the saggy t*ts!  My 2010 990R was top heavy, not the 890R.

 

Probably why I don't feel the t7 is particularly top heavy then lol

 

*edit

Don't think I'm knocking the 890. Not at all, it's a fantastic machine just not for me as a long term keeper.

Plus the 1190 was the last good looking ktm adv

Edited May 23 by sunndog

[Stou]

11 minutes ago, sunndog said:

Don't think I'm knocking the 890. Not at all, it's a fantastic machine just not for me as a long term keeper.

I completely agree with you. The bike is so much fun to ride but you never know when it will fail. That's why I'm looking at the T7. I didn't had any problem with my 890 yet, but when I see every cam problem, it's not the question of if it will happen but when it will happen.