Wierd CanBus Delay with CanSmart on 2023

[Hollybrook]

@random1781

 

https://denalielectronics.com/products/cansmart™-controller-gen-ii-yamaha-tenere-700-series

[random1781]

Just now, Hollybrook said:

@random1781

 

https://denalielectronics.com/products/cansmart™-controller-gen-ii-yamaha-tenere-700-series

Doh, thanks @Hollybrook. I was looking at the ezcan.

 

So the only reason this is connected to the CAN bus is to sense speed decreases and flash auxiliary brake lights.

[Samsam]

1 hour ago, random1781 said:

What does this thing do that actually requires a connection to the CAN bus/diagnostic port?

It is used to control the Denali lights with the original controls of the motorcycle, it plugs into the OBD socket of the motorcycle

[Samsam]

3 hours ago, Long Pond said:

 

I'm not sure why you would need an adapter. Mine came with their standard red OBD pass through and it works normally on both a 2024 with a TFT and a 2023 with an LCD.

 

Both units look just like this:

 

 

On the 2024 or did you connect the original Bluetooth box and connected to the OBD socket?

[Long Pond]

7 minutes ago, Samsam said:

On the 2024 or did you connect the original Bluetooth box and connected to the OBD socket?

 

Yes, one end of the red pass through to the bluetooth, the other to the oem obd connector. The CanSmart is simply in the middle reading ecm info.

 

CanSmart is really just rebranded EZcan. I had some questions and found that Denali was pretty useless for support, so I reached out to EZcan. They're very helpful and knowledgeable.

[Samsam]

4 minutes ago, Long Pond said:

 

Yes, one end of the red pass through to the bluetooth, the other to the oem obd connector. The CanSmart is simply in the middle reading ecm info.

 

CanSmart is really just rebranded EZcan. I had some questions and found that Denali was pretty useless for support, so I reached out to EZcan. They're very helpful and knowledgeable.

Okay, I understood, thank you, on mine it doesn't work. I know for that I bought the euro 5 adapter but it didn't solve the problem

[Long Pond]

9 minutes ago, Samsam said:

Okay, I understood, thank you, on mine it doesn't work. I know for that I bought the euro 5 adapter but it didn't solve the problem

 

I suggest calling EZcan. They understand the product far more than the reps at Denali.

[random1781]

27 minutes ago, Samsam said:

It is used to control the Denali lights with the original controls of the motorcycle, it plugs into the OBD socket of the motorcycle

The original BMW ezcan/cansmart made sense since virtually all the GS's OEM electronics (lights, horn, wonder wheel, etc.) are on the CAN bus.

 

On the Tenere, virtually nothing is on the CAN bus, which is why you have to separately plug everything in. It just seems unnecessarily risky and prone to odd behavior like you're describing to plug in to the diagnostic port to ONLY sense braking. You could just plug into the brake switch to accomplish the same thing and not touch the CAN bus at all.

[Samsam]

31 minutes ago, Long Pond said:

 

I suggest calling EZcan. They understand the product far more than the reps at Denali.

Okay, thank you for your help. I will contact them and come back to you to tell you who and

[Samsam]

1 hour ago, random1781 said:

The original BMW ezcan/cansmart made sense since virtually all the GS's OEM electronics (lights, horn, wonder wheel, etc.) are on the CAN bus.

 

On the Tenere, virtually nothing is on the CAN bus, which is why you have to separately plug everything in. It just seems unnecessarily risky and prone to odd behavior like you're describing to plug in to the diagnostic port to ONLY sense braking. You could just plug into the brake switch to accomplish the same thing and not touch the CAN bus at all.

The cansmart Denali which is connected to the OBD port, the one if manages the lights, the scenarios (flash intensity ect) via the original controls of the motorcycle

[Hollybrook]

7 hours ago, Samsam said:

The cansmart Denali which is connected to the OBD port, the one if manages the lights, the scenarios (flash intensity ect) via the original controls of the motorcycle

I believe that @random1781 is correct and that function is not accomplished using the CAN bus. The cansmart gets its light info from the extra wires connected to the lights. 

[Samsam]

hello y come back to you I changed the Euro 5 cable, still the same problem, I check the Euro 5 connection at the entrance of the cansmart and there I notice that a connection in the middle is completely flattened. I straightened them, and now everything works correctly thank you for your help. (for info the installation was done by the Yamaha garage)

[Samsam]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:23 PM, Long Pond said:

I just installed a Denali CanSmart (ezCan) controller on my 2023 and my wife's 2024 T7s. Both bikes are set up the same - they power a pair of Denali D2s on the red circuit, and a GPS and QuadLock charger on the blue circuit. The 2024 has a Bluetooth module under the seat that the Denali OBD adapter is now inline with.

 

The 2024 works as expected. The aux lights turn off about one second after the key is turned off. Accessories the same (I set the delay to 0 seconds). 

 

The question is about the 2023. The aux lights and accessories stay on for 22 seconds after the key is turned off. Using the ezCan software diagnostics I can see that the Yamaha CanBus does not power down for 22 seconds after the key is turned off, so I don't think it's a Denali CanSmart issue.

 

ezCan and Denali have concluded that it's not their equipment.

 

Does anyone know why, and if it's normal, for the 2023 T7 to have a 22 second delay on powering down the CanBus?

Hello For your information, on my motorbike, when the ignition is switched off, the lights stay on for 5 seconds and then go out.

[Long Pond]

38 minutes ago, Samsam said:

Hello For your information, on my motorbike, when the ignition is switched off, the lights stay on for 5 seconds and then go out.

 

Thanks for the update.

 

On our 23 it takes 22 seconds. On the 24 it's almost instant. A Yamaha guy told me that anything under 60 seconds is normal.

[random1781]

3 hours ago, Long Pond said:

 

Thanks for the update.

 

On our 23 it takes 22 seconds. On the 24 it's almost instant. A Yamaha guy told me that anything under 60 seconds is normal.

This really sounds like an answer they gave because they don't know what's going on. It's already odd for it to take that long to turn off, but for the time to be a variable somewhere in between right away and a minute doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like an engine that can have subtle variances during manufacturing or from its use. It's software.

Edited August 28 by random1781

[Long Pond]

27 minutes ago, random1781 said:

This really sounds like an answer they gave because they don't know what's going on. It's already odd for it to take that long to turn off, but for the time to be a variable somewhere in between right away and a minute doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like an engine that can have subtle variances during manufacturing or from its use. It's software.

 

I agree, but alas I'm at a dead end.

 

 

[random1781]

24 minutes ago, Long Pond said:

 

I agree, but alas I'm at a dead end.

 

 

And that's only with the cansmart plugged in, right?

[Long Pond]

22 minutes ago, random1781 said:

And that's only with the cansmart plugged in, right?

 

Yes. My aux lights are connected to the CanSmart, as is the Quadlock charger and a USB adapter in the back for charging in the panniers. I only knew about the time delay when I first tried the lights and found that they didn't turn off with the key. Further investigation showed that the other accessories mentioned also stayed on.

 

I never would have known there was a delay otherwise. The GPS is wired to the bikes accessory plug and it turns off with the key.

[random1781]

1 hour ago, Long Pond said:

 

Yes. My aux lights are connected to the CanSmart, as is the Quadlock charger and a USB adapter in the back for charging in the panniers. I only knew about the time delay when I first tried the lights and found that they didn't turn off with the key. Further investigation showed that the other accessories mentioned also stayed on.

 

I never would have known there was a delay otherwise. The GPS is wired to the bikes accessory plug and it turns off with the key.

Yeah that has to be a bug in the cansmart. Since the only thing it should be doing on the CAN bus is monitoring your speed, it's a bit alarming that it seems to be interfering with the bike's internal messages.

 

I think Hex had a good grasp on the BMWs, but I think they're just slapping this together for as many other bikes as they can, even if it's not really the best solution for those respective bikes. Reverse engineering that many models only gets harder over time, and it's even trickier now that manufacturers can update their bike's firmware and potentially break your products that at one point worked. I was reading about someone recently who had a glitch with his ezcan/cansmart for a 2018 KTM, and after a replacement had the same problem they worked with him to send custom firmware and eventually got it working.

 

The ezcan/cansmart are products I would steer clear from for the Tenere. There are much better ways to accomplish similar things, don't needlessly touch the CAN bus/diagnostic port, and are generally cheaper...

• Skene
• Eastern Beaver
• PDM60

[Long Pond]

8 hours ago, random1781 said:

Yeah that has to be a bug in the cansmart. Since the only thing it should be doing on the CAN bus is monitoring your speed, it's a bit alarming that it seems to be interfering with the bike's internal messages.

 

I think Hex had a good grasp on the BMWs, but I think they're just slapping this together for as many other bikes as they can, even if it's not really the best solution for those respective bikes. Reverse engineering that many models only gets harder over time, and it's even trickier now that manufacturers can update their bike's firmware and potentially break your products that at one point worked. I was reading about someone recently who had a glitch with his ezcan/cansmart for a 2018 KTM, and after a replacement had the same problem they worked with him to send custom firmware and eventually got it working.

 

The ezcan/cansmart are products I would steer clear from for the Tenere. There are much better ways to accomplish similar things, don't needlessly touch the CAN bus/diagnostic port, and are generally cheaper...

• Skene
• Eastern Beaver
• PDM60

 

The thing to keep in mind is that there really isn't a canbus on the T7 like there is on the BMW. The CanSmart creates one for accessories that are connected to it, and monitors the ECM to simply know if the bike is on or off. The headlights are picked up through a pass-through between the factory connections, the horn is monitored by a wire piggy backed on the one of the horn leads, and the accessories are connected directly to the CanSmart. Brake light functionality isn't provided for the T7, nor are other common features for other models because of the simplicity of the T7 wiring.

 

As part of my original troubleshooting I switched the CanSmart devices between the 2023 with the 22 second delay and the 2024 that had been shutting off with the key - hoping that the problem would move with the device - and it did not. The 22 second delay remained on the 2023, which to my mind switches the focus back on the 2023 ECM as the culprit.

 

Thank you for the links. I'd heard of Eastern Beaver and I have a bunch of plugs from them, but I hadn't heard of the others.

Edited August 29 by Long Pond