Wierd CanBus Delay with CanSmart on 2023

[Long Pond]

I just installed a Denali CanSmart (ezCan) controller on my 2023 and my wife's 2024 T7s. Both bikes are set up the same - they power a pair of Denali D2s on the red circuit, and a GPS and QuadLock charger on the blue circuit. The 2024 has a Bluetooth module under the seat that the Denali OBD adapter is now inline with.

 

The 2024 works as expected. The aux lights turn off about one second after the key is turned off. Accessories the same (I set the delay to 0 seconds). 

 

The question is about the 2023. The aux lights and accessories stay on for 22 seconds after the key is turned off. Using the ezCan software diagnostics I can see that the Yamaha CanBus does not power down for 22 seconds after the key is turned off, so I don't think it's a Denali CanSmart issue.

 

ezCan and Denali have concluded that it's not their equipment.

 

Does anyone know why, and if it's normal, for the 2023 T7 to have a 22 second delay on powering down the CanBus?

[Jesse]

Does it matter? It's probably just a normal power-down sequence. I have the HEX ezCAN installed I could check and see what mine does but I won't be home until next week. 

 

[Long Pond]

1 hour ago, Jesse said:

Does it matter? It's probably just a normal power-down sequence. I have the HEX ezCAN installed I could check and see what mine does but I won't be home until next week. 

 

 

It's just kind of annoying that the aux lights stay on for 22 seconds after I've shut down the bike.  Not the end of the world, but if there's a solution I like to find out.

[BikeBrother]

I think its handy, you can walk out your barn without stumbling over your mess....

[random1781]

10 hours ago, Long Pond said:

ezCan and Denali have concluded that it's not their equipment.

 

Does anyone know why, and if it's normal, for the 2023 T7 to have a 22 second delay on powering down the CanBus?

If the 2023 wiring is the same as the 2020 diagram that I have and if the lights and controllers are connected correctly, I call BS on this.

 

There is constant power to the diagnostics connector, which is what those CAN controllers plug in to, and they're wired into the battery directly, so the controller is getting power regardless of whether the ignition is on or off. They have some type of mechanism to sense when the ignition is on or off, either by voltage level, activity on the CAN bus, or something like that, but it's entirely up to that device to determine when the bike is switched off and what to do in regards to powering the accessories that are wired into it. It should sense that the bike is off and then follow whatever routine it's programmed to do. If it's not normal for the lights to stay on after you switch the bike off, then either the device itself is either defective or has a bug in its software or something is incorrectly wired/shorting out somewhere.

 

I had an ezCAN briefly on my 1200GS. At one point I forgot to plug one of the connectors back in, and the bike went crazy. When I pushed the power button (it was keyless), the screen lit up like a Christmas tree and stayed on, it wouldn't go through its power-on sequence. I couldn't just press the power button to turn it off like normal - I had to push and hold it for a few seconds to get the bike to completely shut off. Of course this is a different bike, but the moral of the story is that there can be unintended/unexpected behaviors if something simple is overlooked, so double check that everything is connected correctly and nothing is shorting just to be sure.

 

There is also constant power to the ECU, so it's entirely possible that the CAN bus is active for 22 seconds after you turn the ignition off. If it is and if the device is using CAN bus activity to sense when the ignition is on, then I guess they're technically correct to say it's functioning normally, but that's pretty sloppy on their part.

[Long Pond]

10 minutes ago, random1781 said:

If the 2023 wiring is the same as the 2020 diagram that I have and if the lights and controllers are connected correctly, I call BS on this.

 

There is constant power to the diagnostics connector, which is what those CAN controllers plug in to, and they're wired into the battery directly, so the controller is getting power regardless of whether the ignition is on or off. They have some type of mechanism to sense when the ignition is on or off, either by voltage level, activity on the CAN bus, or something like that, but it's entirely up to that device to determine when the bike is switched off and what to do in regards to powering the accessories that are wired into it. It should sense that the bike is off and then follow whatever routine it's programmed to do. If it's not normal for the lights to stay on after you switch the bike off, then either the device itself is either defective or has a bug in its software or something is incorrectly wired/shorting out somewhere.

 

I had an ezCAN briefly on my 1200GS. At one point I forgot to plug one of the connectors back in, and the bike went crazy. When I pushed the power button (it was keyless), the screen lit up like a Christmas tree and stayed on, it wouldn't go through its power-on sequence. I couldn't just press the power button to turn it off like normal - I had to push and hold it for a few seconds to get the bike to completely shut off. Of course this is a different bike, but the moral of the story is that there can be unintended/unexpected behaviors if something simple is overlooked, so double check that everything is connected correctly and nothing is shorting just to be sure.

 

There is also constant power to the ECU, so it's entirely possible that the CAN bus is active for 22 seconds after you turn the ignition off. If it is and if the device is using CAN bus activity to sense when the ignition is on, then I guess they're technically correct to say it's functioning normally, but that's pretty sloppy on their part.

 

I agree with your comments, but it's pretty clear that Denali is not interested. ezCan hasn't brushed me off, but they've already said that they don't think it's their device. To their credit they're still trying to help. At their direction I've made all kind of reconfigurations, switched channels, disconnected components, etc., etc. They're really trying to help.

 

I think the only other thing I can do is to switch the 2023 CanSmart over to the 2024 to see if the problem moves with it. I'll give that a shot tomorrow afternoon to see what happens.

[Long Pond]

Curiosity got the best of me so I went down and switched the 2023's CanSmart to the 2024. The problem didn't move along with the CanSmart. When the ignition is shut off on the 2024 the lights turn off in about a second.

 

Sure points to something in the CanBus on the 23.

[random1781]

So is the Denali cansmart a rebranded ezcan?

 

I wonder if it's something like it thinks your US 2023 is a Euro 2023 and is treating it as such, because I think 2023 was the first year for the TFT model in Europe and 2024 was first in the US. That could explain why it works fine on the US 2024, and that's a question I'd ask them.

[Long Pond]

Yes, it seem like the Denali is a rebranded ezCan. The software for the Denali is branded ezCan as well.

 

That's an interesting thought about the Euro version. I'll add that to the help ticket.

 

Thanks!

Edited February 2 by Long Pond

[Samsam]

On 2/1/2024 at 2:23 PM, Long Pond said:

I just installed a Denali CanSmart (ezCan) controller on my 2023 and my wife's 2024 T7s. Both bikes are set up the same - they power a pair of Denali D2s on the red circuit, and a GPS and QuadLock charger on the blue circuit. The 2024 has a Bluetooth module under the seat that the Denali OBD adapter is now inline with.

 

The 2024 works as expected. The aux lights turn off about one second after the key is turned off. Accessories the same (I set the delay to 0 seconds). 

 

The question is about the 2023. The aux lights and accessories stay on for 22 seconds after the key is turned off. Using the ezCan software diagnostics I can see that the Yamaha CanBus does not power down for 22 seconds after the key is turned off, so I don't think it's a Denali CanSmart issue.

 

ezCan and Denali have concluded that it's not their equipment.

 

Does anyone know why, and if it's normal, for the 2023 T7 to have a 22 second delay on powering down the CanBus?

Hello. Does your Bluetooth module work properlywith the canSmart Denali box? Since I installed it, the Bluetooth no longer works

What adapter did you use please?

[Long Pond]

5 hours ago, Samsam said:

Hello. Does your Bluetooth module work properlywith the canSmart Denali box? Since I installed it, the Bluetooth no longer works

What adapter did you use please?

 

The Denali CanSmart unit I have is really just a pass through, with male and female OBD plugs.. I unplugged the red 6-pin OBD OEM Yamaha plug from the bluetooth unit, plugged it in to the Denali, and plugged the OBD from the Denali into the bluetooth unit. No issues with the bluetooth unit once done. Note: This is on my wife's 2024 with the TFT and OEM bluetooth.

 

On a very wet ride water got into the plug connection between the Yamaha OBD and the input on the CanSmart. Really odd behaviors ensued...the odometer stopped working, about half of the TFT screen functions disappeared, and after about a half an hour her auxiliary lights went out. Once we stopped I went through the connections and found the water, blew it out and sprayed a little silicone, and all was well. All of the functions returned except that there were about 60 miles that never recorded on the odometer. I'm really surprised that water in the OBD plug could cause those issues.

 

 

[random1781]

2 hours ago, Long Pond said:

 

The Denali CanSmart unit I have is really just a pass through, with male and female OBD plugs.. I unplugged the red 6-pin OBD OEM Yamaha plug from the bluetooth unit, plugged it in to the Denali, and plugged the OBD from the Denali into the bluetooth unit. No issues with the bluetooth unit once done. Note: This is on my wife's 2024 with the TFT and OEM bluetooth.

 

On a very wet ride water got into the plug connection between the Yamaha OBD and the input on the CanSmart. Really odd behaviors ensued...the odometer stopped working, about half of the TFT screen functions disappeared, and after about a half an hour her auxiliary lights went out. Once we stopped I went through the connections and found the water, blew it out and sprayed a little silicone, and all was well. All of the functions returned except that there were about 60 miles that never recorded on the odometer. I'm really surprised that water in the OBD plug could cause those issues.

 

 

The CAN bus was never really meant to be tapped into specifically because it does carry vital data from different controllers, and since the diagnostic port was meant for bench use, it has a 12V line in addition to connections to the dash, ECU, and ABS ECU. As you saw, shorting that 12V line to the CAN bus will at least disrupt the network, but it could also damage one of those controllers. It's disappointing to hear that they use crappy connectors, but I'm glad nothing bad happened to your electronics!

 

Good reminder to everyone to dielectric grease/tape up those connectors, especially the cheap Chinese ones for those Bluetooth dongles.

[Hollybrook]

That is one of the reasons I chose not to use a LSK dongle to disable the ABS. Yamaha does not publish their proprietary CAN bus messages and what interaction they might have on non-related functions, at least as far as I know. 

 

For those looking for inexpensive dielectric grease, silicone pool lube works great and is easy to find. 

[Samsam]

10 hours ago, Long Pond said:

 

The Denali CanSmart unit I have is really just a pass through, with male and female OBD plugs.. I unplugged the red 6-pin OBD OEM Yamaha plug from the bluetooth unit, plugged it in to the Denali, and plugged the OBD from the Denali into the bluetooth unit. No issues with the bluetooth unit once done. Note: This is on my wife's 2024 with the TFT and OEM bluetooth.

 

On a very wet ride water got into the plug connection between the Yamaha OBD and the input on the CanSmart. Really odd behaviors ensued...the odometer stopped working, about half of the TFT screen functions disappeared, and after about a half an hour her auxiliary lights went out. Once we stopped I went through the connections and found the water, blew it out and sprayed a little silicone, and all was well. All of the functions returned except that there were about 60 miles that never recorded on the odometer. I'm really surprised that water in the OBD plug could cause those issues.

 

 

Hello, on mine tenere 700 world rally 2024, I bought euro 5 pass through wiring adapter, when the cansmart and Bluetooth box are plugged in, the Bluetooth does not work and disconnects permanently, when I plug it in alone cansmart disconnects it works properly.

[neil_]

Why not just use an ignition live feed to switch a relay powering your accessories? Seems like a lot of expense and trouble trying to use the bikes can bus for something a $2 relay could do more reliably.

[Samsam]

In fact, I think there is a compatibility problem between the Denali cansmart and the original Bluetooth box.

[Samsam]

If I connect the Bluetooth box to the cansmart denali, the Bluetooth does not work and the cansmart is still powered which discharges my battery

[Long Pond]

3 hours ago, Samsam said:

Hello, on mine tenere 700 world rally 2024, I bought euro 5 pass through wiring adapter, when the cansmart and Bluetooth box are plugged in, the Bluetooth does not work and disconnects permanently, when I plug it in alone cansmart disconnects it works properly.

 

I'm not sure why you would need an adapter. Mine came with their standard red OBD pass through and it works normally on both a 2024 with a TFT and a 2023 with an LCD.

 

Both units look just like this:

 

 

[Samsam]

yes that's it, when I plug the Bluetooth box into the cansmart the Bluetooth doesn't work, for that I bought a new cable thinking that it would work but still doesn't.

[Samsam]

denali recommends not connecting anything to the OBD socket, it must remain empty, that's why I bought this cable thinking it would work.

[Samsam]

Use this EURO 5 CANbus Pass-Through if you want to add an additional accessory while a CANsmart™ controller is already installed. Whether you are looking to install a fuel management system or an additional CANsmart™, this adapter provides you with the additional connector you are looking for.

[Samsam]

[random1781]

What does this thing do that actually requires a connection to the CAN bus/diagnostic port?

[Samsam]

to have the cansmart and the Bluetooth box in series

[random1781]

I mean in general, what is the controller using from the CAN bus? It's separately tapped in to the high beam and horn to sense when you use those, so what is it using the CAN bus for?