Suspension Upgrades For Heavy Riders

[Leigh]

Is it worth my upgrading the springs to my body weight alone? -standard T7 100kg rider? If so any advice uk based 

[AZJW]

@Leigh  You posted in a thread that has a lot of good advice in it, but the short answer is, if you're not happy with the handling, yes.  You probably should be looking for a 90nm or 95nm spring, depending on the manufacturer you go with. RallyRaid Products is an Approved Forum Vendor and is in your neck of the woods.

[Jitenshakun]

Hoping to revive this helpful thread. 

 

At 100kg and 6'4" I have a bit of mass that wants to sit a bit outside the sweet spot on the T7. Stock springs bottomed out on me so I'm running KT 6.3 and 85nm. Not mega stiff right?

 

Thing is, sitting comfortably there's too much rear chatter on washboard and i can't put power down. Meanwhile, the fork dives in its initial stroke and doesn't track well. 

 

I've played with the adjustments to get the best I can. What makes as much difference is getting centered (forward for me) on the bike. I'd prefer to sit back and have the suspension work as well. 

 

Would tweaked spring rates and better damping allow the bike to handle chatter and provide more support?  Should I be talking to Ohlin? 

 

Paved road feels good. It's rough road I'd like to improve upon. 

[Hollybrook]

Chatter over washboard road is usually due to having too much compression damping. 

[Jitenshakun]

1 minute ago, Hollybrook said:

Chatter over washboard road is usually due to having too much compression damping. 

I have it down to 1 click, or basically open.  The front isn't damped much either. 

 

I'd guess over-sprung, but for the diving front end. The rear I need to verify for sag again. 

[Hollybrook]

I'm about your size and running 6.4 N/mm springs in the front with Rally Raid open cartridges, and 90 N/mm springs with a Rally Raid Extreme shock in the rear. This gives me correct rider sag and works very well for fast riding over moderate bumps and jumps. If I am going to be on gravel roads with lots of washboard, I soften the rear high and low speed compression adjustments. That makes it OK, but not fantastic.

 

With a heavy bike like the T7 and limited suspension travel, I doubt you can get it to work great everywhere 

[Jitenshakun]

1 minute ago, Hollybrook said:

I'm about your size and running 6.4 N/mm springs in the front with Rally Raid open cartridges, and 90 N/mm springs with a Rally Raid Extreme shock in the rear. This gives me correct rider sag and works very well for fast riding over moderate bumps and jumps. If I am going to be on gravel roads with lots of washboard, I soften the rear high and low speed compression adjustments. That makes it OK, but not fantastic.

 

With a heavy bike like the T7 and limited suspension travel, I doubt you can get it to work great everywhere 

I'd like to have it set up for pavement and rough roads as I'm more a forestey/mining service road guy than a tech trail guy. 

 

Can the stock parts manage repeated high speed bumps, or do they fall flat because of small internal valving? 

 

Open on a tiny hole isn't that open right? 

[Hollybrook]

Perhaps someone else can help you with thar. I quickly went from stock to the Rally Raid suspension and didn't spend much time trying to get the stock to work for me. 

[Jitenshakun]

1 minute ago, Hollybrook said:

Perhaps someone else can help you with thar. I quickly went from stock to the Rally Raid suspension and didn't spend much time trying to get the stock to work for me. 

I've got a few decades fiddling wity 2-wheeled suspension on mountain bikes and it all feela very similar on a moto. 

 

I've never been happy with budget valving.... 

[Hollybrook]

Besides Rally Raid (Tractive) and Ohlins, Suspension 101 in California has a good reputation. 

[Jitenshakun]

Those are the two I'm looking at. It'll probably boil down to service suppport. I have a local TracTive dealer, but they are a BMW specialty shop. Ohlins are handled by a few different places. 

[Hollybrook]

FWIW, I really like the Rally Raid version of the Tractive suspension. I suspect, but don't know, that Rally Raid gets some customization for their private label version. I've heard some comments that the Tractive version is harsh, and I could see people making that comment about the Rally Raid version as well, especially if they kept the recommended clicker settings and were mostly street riders. 

 

If I was to redo my suspension, I would probably go with the Rally Raid +25mm versions or Suspension 101.  I believe both give extended travel, which I think would be beneficial for my style of riding. 

 

@Windblown has the Ohlins and might be able to give you some insight about them. 

[Jitenshakun]

I was curious about extra travel, but am leery of messing up the intended desig by overextending the suspension. 

 

I should look for a thread about extended vs. stock height. 

[random1781]

1 hour ago, Hollybrook said:

FWIW, I really like the Rally Raid version of the Tractive suspension. I suspect, but don't know, that Rally Raid gets some customization for their private label version. I've heard some comments that the Tractive version is harsh, and I could see people making that comment about the Rally Raid version as well, especially if they kept the recommended clicker settings and were mostly street riders. 

 

If I was to redo my suspension, I would probably go with the Rally Raid +25mm versions or Suspension 101.  I believe both give extended travel, which I think would be beneficial for my style of riding. 

 

@Windblown has the Ohlins and might be able to give you some insight about them. 

When I spoke to RR, they said there was no difference between their version of the +25 and Tractive's. Suspension 101 resprung that one for me, but they basically said they have no data on that shock and otherwise left it at its stock form. It's stock form is definitely very harsh since that one in particular is geared for rally riding, but it does its job really well. I don't think I've bottomed out the rear despite all the crap I have.

[Hollybrook]

55 minutes ago, random1781 said:

When I spoke to RR, they said there was no difference between their version of the +25 and Tractive's. Suspension 101 resprung that one for me, but they basically said they have no data on that shock and otherwise left it at its stock form. It's stock form is definitely very harsh since that one in particular is geared for rally riding, but it does its job really well. I don't think I've bottomed out the rear despite all the crap I have.

 

I have the standard open cartridge forks and recently bottomed them out for the first time over a jump.  I had the clickers set at one softer for rebound and two softer for compression (recommended is 4R and 6C).  These cartridges have a much improved hydraulic stop which I have gotten into before, but this is the first time I found the limit.  I am running their recommended air gap which also affects how compliant the forks are.

 

Like @random1781, I am not aware of ever bottoming out the shock, even though I have all three clickers set three clicks softer than recommended for riding with minimal gear and two when fully loaded.  Without being able to use an O-ring to record maximum travel, it is hard to tell when you bottom out the shock if it has a good bump stop unless you really hit it hard.

 

As stated above, Rally Raid designs their suspensions for rally use, not the street.  They work very well if you like to push the bike on rough terrain, but are not plush on the street.  Either I have gotten used to that or the lighter clicker settings are working for me.  Probably both combined.  I find that when I ride with friends, they pull away from me on smoother gravel, but I make up for it on the rough stuff.

Edited September 26 by Hollybrook

[Jitenshakun]

If a guy could get a setup that runs in the middle of the clickers that guy could soften it for gravel and stiffen it for hard trail. 

 

If a guy is at either extreme that flexibility goes away. 

[Montesa_VR]

Interesting discussion. Greg Yager of Ride Adventure Australia thinks most of the aftermarket suspension upgrades are too harsh for all day adventure riding. His shop has settled on mostly Australian Teknik Motorsport. They list their complete front and rear kit for $755.52.

Yamaha T7 Tenere 700 XTZ690 Fork & Shock Suspension Info & Tuning Mods

---

Yamaha T7 Tenere 700 XTZ 690 XT690Z

If you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll see their interesting comments on the various upgrades available from multiple companies. 

 

Second choice for Yager is the K-Tech.

[Hollybrook]

1 hour ago, Jitenshakun said:

If a guy could get a setup that runs in the middle of the clickers that guy could soften it for gravel and stiffen it for hard trail. 

 

If a guy is at either extreme that flexibility goes away. 

 

That's where I am, but probably too stiff for lighter riders.

[Jitenshakun]

11 minutes ago, Hollybrook said:

 

That's where I am, but probably too stiff for lighter riders.

And I'm about 105kg geared up, so right between many spring weight suggestions. Heavy, but yet not that heavy.

 

It sounds like RR may have just changed the color and runs limited spring rates to keep the number of SKUs down. 

 

RR/TracTive, Ohlins, and TekNik seem to each be a good improvement over my stock valving and KTech springs. 

[Windblown]

I can't speak for the after market suspensions I haven't tried but I will say the stock suspension had me looking for alternatives quickly. It was fine for a price point suspension at getting from point A to Point B until one got into technical terrain or got in the mood to pick up the pace on less than smooth fireroads. 

 

I first went with K-tech springs front and rear and K-tech piston kit in the forks. It was an improvement over stock and I was pretty happy with the improvement but I was still getting too much unacceptable harshness on sharp edged hits and a generally sketchy feel at speed on unmaintained rocky two-track.  

 

After much research on what was on the market for the T700 and having had some previous experience with the Ohlins Adventure fork cartridges I decide to roll the dice with them and an Ohlins shock.  My T700 now feels like it has the suspension under it that suits me.  The harshness is gone and replaced with a plush but controlled suspension. It tracks better and most importantly the only surprises I get are when it handles something sketchy better than I thought it possibly could. 

 

Extended travel suspension -  More suspension travel is always a plus at higher speeds in rough or technical terrain all other things being equal. However, that extra travel usually involves more seat height which can be a disadvantage when the going gets tough in first gear technical terrain unless the rider has a long inseam or exceptional balance and the skills to go with it.  In my estimation it kind of depends on where and how you ride if more travel is a good thing. Here is a really old review of a T700 equipped with a Tractive  Xtreme long travel suspension under it.  https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2022/10/13/overland-expo-yamaha-tenere-700-review-yellowstone-tested/  The reviewer mentions some challenges due to the taller suspension. 

 

Sidebar: - I have a KTM 790 with a 270mm travel WP Xplor Pro closed cartridge suspension under it and it's truly amazing.   Soaks up HUGE hits with incredible plushness yet offers exceptional feedback that allows you to "feel" surface you are riding on almost like you were running your hand across it.  I can boogie down two track on it at silly speeds.  It's also very very tall...   and when the going is 1st gear tough with an occasional dab on the menu my lower T700 is more confidence inspiring and yet damn near as capable at speed in rough terrain with stock travel.  In fact the extra height on the 790 due to the long suspension negatively impacts low speed handling enough that I am converting the suspension to it's shorter 240mm variant next week.  

 

That's my 2 cents.

Edited September 26 by Windblown

[Hollybrook]

@Windblown one of these days we need to try each others bike for a real comparison.

[Jitenshakun]

I'm 6'4" but appreciate a decent margin for uneven tech terrain. 

 

Reading it seems like RR/TracTive is want you want if airtime and drops are a part of your world. 

 

Revalving or Ohlins seem more in line with ripping sketchy roads.

 

And if you are only riding road the stock setup (for your weight) is more than sufficient. 

[random1781]

3 hours ago, Jitenshakun said:

I'm 6'4" but appreciate a decent margin for uneven tech terrain. 

 

Reading it seems like RR/TracTive is want you want if airtime and drops are a part of your world. 

 

Revalving or Ohlins seem more in line with ripping sketchy roads.

 

And if you are only riding road the stock setup (for your weight) is more than sufficient. 

TFX that has a +15mm rear that might be an interesting compromise for you. I've never heard feedback on TFX though, but that's what Cory went with.

[random1781]

6 hours ago, Montesa_VR said:

Interesting discussion. Greg Yager of Ride Adventure Australia thinks most of the aftermarket suspension upgrades are too harsh for all day adventure riding. His shop has settled on mostly Australian Teknik Motorsport. They list their complete front and rear kit for $755.52.

Yamaha T7 Tenere 700 XTZ690 Fork & Shock Suspension Info & Tuning Mods

---

Yamaha T7 Tenere 700 XTZ 690 XT690Z

If you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll see their interesting comments on the various upgrades available from multiple companies. 

 

Second choice for Yager is the K-Tech.

This sounds right. Even RR's non-rally shocks are still pretty harsh. But to be fair, it's in the company's name. I think that's the sexy thing to do with the Tenere, so everyone does it.

[Jitenshakun]

12 minutes ago, random1781 said:

TFX that has a +15mm rear that might be an interesting compromise for you. I've never heard feedback on TFX though, but that's what Cory went with.

Camel Cory? I was wondering what he uses...