Spring upgrade, what to expect?

[bookwormhands]

On 6/16/2022 at 9:02 PM, T7MapleLeaf said:

Alright, Ktech 85N and 6.6N springs on their way.   Still not sure why Ktech 85N says 240lb rider weight?  But with 175lb rider+Outbak crash bars, MX gear at the lightest loadout, and that +loaded Kreiga OS luggage, I figure I'll be somewhere right in that weight.

 

 

@T7MapleLeaf Do you have any feedback on this setup?  I'm new to the T7 scene and am looking to upgrade springs.  I'm about the same weight as you with similar gear weight, etc.

[T7MapleLeaf]

2 hours ago, bookwormhands said:

@T7MapleLeaf Do you have any feedback on this setup?  I'm new to the T7 scene and am looking to upgrade springs.  I'm about the same weight as you with similar gear weight, etc.

I do!   Done only about 2,500km with the new springs. Mostly high speed flat offroad.  

 

Preload zero, I am slightly too high on rear sag.  I can jump on the seat and it barely moves.  Bike also feels way taller when the feet are down, with a 33 inseam and boots i’m tip toes now. 

 

Highway no difference. Around town its definitely stiff. WAY better brake dive. Much better travel of the forks offroad with barely any bottoming out now. Offroad, its an interesting mix.  I got bucked pretty hard a couple times before really dialling the clickers. Overall an improvement.

 

With all my kreiga stuff loaded and my travel gear, I’m max 2-5 clicks on the preload.  Thats probably around 40lbs of gear, then sometimes 5L of fuel and up to 10L of water. 

 

Really the biggest handling boost is with a passenger. feels actually ridable with someone on the back now. Which is a rare occurrence for me.

 

So i’d have for sure done the same fork springs, but went down 1 rear size as well.   This is all with stock shimming/valving/fork oil weight (rated weight atleast… not sure how it compares to stock oil), so any changes there would make this all moot. 

 

[bookwormhands]

24 minutes ago, T7MapleLeaf said:

I do!   Done only about 2,500km with the new springs. Mostly high speed flat offroad.  

 

Preload zero, I am slightly too high on rear sag.  I can jump on the seat and it barely moves.  Bike also feels way taller when the feet are down, with a 33 inseam and boots i’m tip toes now. 

 

Highway no difference. Around town its definitely stiff. WAY better brake dive. Much better travel of the forks offroad with barely any bottoming out now. Offroad, its an interesting mix.  I got bucked pretty hard a couple times before really dialling the clickers. Overall an improvement.

 

With all my kreiga stuff loaded and my travel gear, I’m max 2-5 clicks on the preload.  Thats probably around 40lbs of gear, then sometimes 5L of fuel and up to 10L of water. 

 

Really the biggest handling boost is with a passenger. feels actually ridable with someone on the back now. Which is a rare occurrence for me.

 

So i’d have for sure done the same fork springs, but went down 1 rear size as well.   This is all with stock shimming/valving/fork oil weight (rated weight atleast… not sure how it compares to stock oil), so any changes there would make this all moot. 

 

@T7MapleLeaf thanks for the feedback!  I find it interesting that you experienced the 85 N/mm spring on the rear as too stiff.  There have been several others on the forums who got the 90 N/mm Rally Raid rear spring because they thought the 85 N/mm wasn’t stiff enough even at our “low weight”.   I don’t know the specifics differences in spring length between the two manufacturers. 
 

For the front, would you say the 6.6 N/mm is perfect?  Or would you downsize and get adjustable preload caps?

[T7MapleLeaf]

2 minutes ago, bookwormhands said:

@T7MapleLeaf thanks for the feedback!  I find it interesting that you experienced the 85 N/mm spring on the rear as too stiff.  There have been several others on the forums who got the 90 N/mm Rally Raid rear spring because they thought the 85 N/mm wasn’t stiff enough even at our “low weight”.   I don’t know the specifics differences in spring length between the two manufacturers. 
 

For the front, would you say the 6.6 N/mm is perfect?  Or would you downsize and get adjustable preload caps?

Definitely wouldn't downsize the front. My sag on the front is actually right near the top of where it should be. 

 

Rear spring i was very surprised how stiff it is.  Maybe thats where the reccomended weights between K-Tech and RR are way different? 

[bookwormhands]

3 minutes ago, T7MapleLeaf said:

Definitely wouldn't downsize the front. My sag on the front is actually right near the top of where it should be. 

 

Rear spring i was very surprised how stiff it is.  Maybe thats where the reccomended weights between K-Tech and RR are way different? 

@T7MapleLeaf ok, so the RR has a free length of 235 mm and Ktech is 245 mm.  At the same preload height, that explains the 10 N/mm difference.

[T7MapleLeaf]

18 minutes ago, bookwormhands said:

@T7MapleLeaf ok, so the RR has a free length of 235 mm and Ktech is 245 mm.  At the same preload height, that explains the 10 N/mm difference.

That explains why we couldn't get it on without a heavy duty spring compressor!  I might consider going lower in the future. 

[bookwormhands]

8 minutes ago, T7MapleLeaf said:

That explains why we couldn't get it on without a heavy duty spring compressor!  I might consider going lower in the future. 

Thanks again for the suggestion.  You definitely helped me on this.  So many variables when it comes to suspension tuning.

[Oxxa]

On 5/3/2024 at 3:12 AM, T7MapleLeaf said:

That explains why we couldn't get it on without a heavy duty spring compressor!  I might consider going lower in the future. 

Hello there mate.

 

You should have listened to the recommended K Tech spring of 75N to 80N for your weight. Rider weight means the rider naked and they already took into account all the other variables so you don’t have to. That, and the K tech springs are longer. Your mistake was including all your accessories and luggage into the mix and went for the 245lbs 85nm spring which is not for you.

 

I have the 80N rear spring and it feels on the edge of comfy and stiffness, maybe I would prefer the 75N but im not sure what the sag would be.

 

i am  187lbs naked,

10kg moto gear,

10kg: kriega os base incl clothing.

 

compression set at softest, zero preload

Edited June 12 by Oxxa

[T7MapleLeaf]

1 hour ago, Oxxa said:

Hello there mate.

 

You should have listened to the recommended K Tech spring of 75N to 80N for your weight. Rider weight means the rider naked and they already took into account all the other variables so you don’t have to. That, and the K tech springs are longer. Your mistake was including all your accessories and luggage into the mix and went for the 245lbs 85nm spring which is not for you.

 

I have the 80N rear spring and it feels on the edge of comfy and stiffness, maybe I would prefer the 75N but im not sure what the sag would be.

 

i am  187lbs naked,

10kg moto gear,

10kg: kriega os base incl clothing.

 

compression set at softest, zero preload

Absolutely. Rookie move.   I upgraded the rear after riding 2up. Which it’s definitely better at with the 85N, but is a rare occurrence.

 

But now I’m deciding between ordering  the 75 and the 80. 7N more then stock, 5N lower then the current 85. 

[Oxxa]

1 minute ago, T7MapleLeaf said:

Absolutely. Rookie move.   I upgraded the rear after riding 2up. Which it’s definitely better at with the 85N, but is a rare occurrence.

 

But now I’m deciding between ordering  the 75 and the 80. 7N more then stock, 5N lower then the current 85. 

for real comfort get the 75nm, and increase the preload to get the sag when you carry luggage. For stiff comfort 80N

Edited June 12 by Oxxa

[bookwormhands]

@Oxxa, What are you running for the fork spring rates?

[Oxxa]

4 minutes ago, bookwormhands said:

@Oxxa, What are you running for the fork spring rates?

I have 6.9nm front, will switch to 6.3nm but I think stock suspension is best (if you weigh 70-90kg) for adventure riding because its so plush and absorbs everything. Its not good for fast offroad but great for decent speeds and overall comfort

Edited August 5 by Oxxa

[bookwormhands]

@Oxxa , did you try reducing the compression damping to see if that helped with the harshness?  I weigh 80 kg and went with the 6.6 N/mm fork springs and the 80 N/mm shock spring.  I have yet to put it through the paces but I'm hoping it's not going to be too stiff.

 

Edited August 5 by bookwormhands

[Oxxa]

3 minutes ago, bookwormhands said:

@oxxa, did you try reducing the compression damping to see if that helped with the harshness?  I weight 80 kg and went with the 6.6 N/mm fork springs and the 80 N/mm shock spring.  I have yet to put it through the paces but I'm hoping it's not going to be too stiff.

 

I am 85kg, i am at softest compression settings and its awfully stiff.
 

6.6nm for you will be stiff but you will be able to push hard offroad

Edited August 5 by Oxxa

[bookwormhands]

@Oxxa,  what weight fork oil did you use?

[Oxxa]

10w as K Tech recommendation

 

@bookwormhands

Edited August 5 by Oxxa

[bookwormhands]

@Oxxa,  I went with Motul 7.5W (closest to Yamaha fork oil weight from what I've gathered).  So maybe that'll help with the harshness. 

[Oxxa]

10 minutes ago, bookwormhands said:

@Oxxa,  I went with Motul 7.5W (closest to Yamaha fork oil weight from what I've gathered).  So maybe that'll help with the harshness. 

I previously had 5w oil in my 6.9mm forks and it was bearable. If you find your 6.6nm stiff go with 5w oil

[bookwormhands]

@T7MapleLeaf, what’d you end up going with for the rear spring rate?  Did you keep your 6.6 N/mm forks?   What front and rear sag are you measuring with your updated setup?